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Spudda
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 5522
Location: Penn,Wolverhampton. SITE ADMIN
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 Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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My cornering speed is shockingly shit !!!! Mine too is a confidence thing but mines in my head and not the bike. Previous nasty smash on a bend I use regular has messed with my head. Went out the other weekend and my mate on his Fazer and when he was following, he had to keep braking when normally he'd of flowed through a bend. He even commented on it a few days later which is unlike him. I know I need to get out and practise on some bends on a nice quiet evening
I've found that when I brake, my arse slides forwards in the seat obviously causing the front end to take extra load and found my wrists to start hurting.
I guess gripping MORE with the thighs will resolve the sliding forward
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Dayt0na
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 614
Location: Up North, England
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Its strange when I crashed on track I lost the back end getting on the gas to much to soon but it's not something which plays on my mind, the front has always been solid but just don't trust it - Go Figure |
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graycat
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 2102
Location: The Big Smoke
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Spudda wrote: | I've found that when I brake, my arse slides forwards in the seat obviously causing the front end to take extra load and found my wrists to start hurting.
I guess gripping MORE with the thighs will resolve the sliding forward |
I used to do this and still do a bit when in "commuter mode" but as you said it's all about gripping the tank with your thighs. I actually found that by shuffling my arse back a bit, it makes gripping with my knees absolutely perfect on the tank due to it's contours. So good that I can take pretty much all weight off my wrists whilst braking really hard from 100+ down to ~30 for a roundabout .... sorry, corner on the track!! 
As to the original poster, I've a similar issue but have found it lessened a lot by proper body position and getting on the throttle slightly just before the corner turn in to balance the bike. That and looking where I want to go really helps.
You've got to remember that the D6 is probably one of the best handling bikes around and gives you a lot of feedback about what's going on. If it feels like it's sliding a bit in corners ... it's probably coz it is but only a tiny amount. the thing is it's so strange and alarming to feel the front slide that it feels like you're drifting it into the corner when you're not at all but this feeling upsets you which causes you to tense up and possibly back off the throttle and coast round the corner rather than balancing it out and in the end makes things worse.
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dealsgapdragon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Get rid of the Pirelli Diablos and replace with Dunlops, or any tire with a round tread profile on the front tire.
Pirelli Diablos have a triangular profile on the front tire. They are designed to help inferior Ducati V-twin long wheelbase bikes to compete with short-wheelbase Jap 4s on the track. The triangular profile on the front tire helps it turn in faster by literally falling over.
Triangular Pirelli Diablo on Daytona 666, er 600 possessed by the Devil
I changed my front tire this week to Dunlop, and the problem disappeared. Now it just steers like a normal bike, no falling over.
Sportrider and Superbike magazines both reported on this problem, which is cured by getting rid of Pirellis. But the magazine writers are not allowed to actually say this without getting fired, due to editors' fear of loss of advertising revenue (legalized bribery). So you have to read between the lies and think for yourself.
| Quote: | Sportrider: 2003 2004 Triumph Daytona 600 Road Test
We did notice the Daytona's tendency to fall into the corner once past the halfway point in its lean angle, though we would attribute that trait to the tires. Our test unit came equipped with standard Pirelli Diablos, while the OEM fitment is a special "T" model of the Diablo. We weren't able to get the Diablo T tires in time for the test, so we can't positively blame the handling idiosyncrasy on the bike's rubber, but when we slapped on a set of Michelin Pilot Race H2 street/track radials for racetrack testing, the fall-in tendency disappeared.
http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_0312_triumph_daytona_600/index.html |
Superbike reported that none of the riders liked the Pirellis on the Daytona, even the racers on the track, and that riding it required "counter-countersteering", which is the opposite of all other motorcycles. The pro racers failed to even drag a knee at Brands Hatch using Pirellis, since it was unstable to lean that far over.
That's why WSB requires Pirelli spec tires, to give Italian bikes an unfair advantage, in addition to bigger displacement.
A spec tire gives a false impression that they work good on 4-bangers, when in fact Pirelli tires reduce cornering speed and thus reduce top speed.
| Quote: | The second regulation change was the use of a "control" or "spec" tyre, to be supplied to all competitors. The bid process was won by Pirelli, who supply between five and seven different compounds per race. Though top and cornering speeds have fallen, the racing has become closer and safer.
http://superbikes.info/ |
A spec tire eliminates competition on the track, and in advertising. It's basically a bribe to a sanctioning body to give a false endorsement to an inferior -- or dangerous -- product. On a bike, less control equals more danger, especially on the street.
The solution is to NEVER allow V-twins to race 4-bangers. Let them each have their own series, with round tires, and ban triangular tires.
Here's the sales hype:
| Quote: | Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa Tires Review
To do this, engineers significantly modified the tire's shape. The shoulder areas on either side were curved, thereby making the tires external profile more triangular. This gives the tire a progressively larger contact patch as it is leaned over in a corner. When compared side-by-side to the previous generation, the DSC is significantly more triangulated which facilitates its superb maximum lean angle.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/545/88/Motorcycle-Article/Pirelli-Diablo-Supercorsa-Tires-Review.aspx |
The way it actually feels is the more you lean it, the more the tire grabs the asphalt as the contact patch gets larger, which then requires steering in the opposite direction to any other motorcycle ("counter-countersteering"). So there is zero stability in a curve. Pirellis probably don't feel much better on V-twins on the street.
Exorcise your bike, bury your Pirelli Diablos.
_______________________________________
636 curves & 36 cops per 22 mile lap
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Darren 41
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 3392
Location: Orange CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Two points I like to ask you about dragon;
1. The Pirelli Diablos on a D6 are 'Daytona' specific & don't look at all triangular.
2. Regarding the rest of your harangue; What the eff exactly are you talking about? I have no clue!!
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Tim
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 3416
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Darren 41 wrote: | | 1. The Pirelli Diablos on a D6 are 'Daytona' specific & don't look at all triangular. |
Although mine don't look like that photo I'm really glad someone and some professional riders have found the same thing. I've bought two D6's and both have come with Diablos. I just can't get on with them. The bike wants to lay down given half the chance. I much prefer a tyre you're in control of. Having said that, it's all personal opinion and some people prefer to go with the bike rather than lead the bike.
| Darren 41 wrote: | | 2. Regarding the rest of your harangue; What the eff exactly are you talking about? I have no clue!! |
Pretty simply to follow. All constructive and we've even got sources quoted! Perhaps some Californian sun has got to you D41 - missing the fog on the Tyne?!! 
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Stan_laurel
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 399
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Not wanting to drop the bike is a sound thing to me. Don't worry about getting over. There is no rule book that says you can't go at your own confort zone. Anyone who tries to push you on outside that zone is being a dick. Do your own thing. Feck all the rest. Just ride to have fun. From what Darren is saying. I don't like the sound of thoses Pirelli Diablos. |
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dealsgapdragon
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dealsgapdragon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Darren 41 wrote: | Two points I like to ask you about dragon;
1. The Pirelli Diablos on a D6 are 'Daytona' specific & don't look at all triangular.
2. Regarding the rest of your harangue; What the eff exactly are you talking about? I have no clue!! |
If my D6 had come with round tires then I wouldn't care about this topic.
But since the bike handled like crap I had to figure out if it was the bike, the tires or me.
I've ridden bikes for 35 years, and raced cars for 8 years in England. So I know a little about going around curves.
Turned out it was the triangular front. Changed tire = CURE.
WSB racers have been biachin about this scam for years. They may be able to change headstock angle or other tricks to compensate. Which is why Ducati won so many championships -- Pirelli was sabotaging the competition. Or rather, Ducati and WSB was sabotaging the non-Italian competition. It's really the Italian Superbike Championship.
Which is what Roger Edmondson at "AMA" NASCAR is copying by letting 1150 cc Buell Rotax (Made In Austria) and 1000 cc Aprillas beat up on 600 cc 4s, then banning any rider who complains.
That's why Pirelli makes racers, teams and talking heads sign Non-Disclosure Contracts to censor all complaints, as typical in corporate jobs and sponsorships.
Last edited by dealsgapdragon on Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Darren 41
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 3392
Location: Orange CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim wrote: |
| Darren 41 wrote: | | 2. Regarding the rest of your harangue; What the eff exactly are you talking about? I have no clue!! |
Pretty simply to follow. All constructive and we've even got sources quoted! Perhaps some Californian sun has got to you D41 - missing the fog on the Tyne?!! |
Disagree entirely!!
'dragon's remarks were not in the least bit constructive, relying almost entirely on 3rd party hearsay. If I were to pay attention only to the rantings of m/c journos I'd be riding AJM every day of the week with a Duke for weekend fun! Please tell me just 1 thing that was constructive, - just 1!!!
PS. We have way more fog in LA than the Tyne & Thames put together
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peter.weedy
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 2118
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:25 am Post subject: |
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It all reads very interesting...conspiracy-theory-like
Although:
I run diablo supercorsas all the time every time.
1) they are excellent for tipping in..
2) They give me excellent grip..
3) they are good for race-pace lap times =) on a british builty Daytona 600
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Admiral Nelson
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 1290
Location: Plymouth
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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I think it is just a confidence thing. You pick your tyres and try for yourself. Other peoples experience may not be yours. Advice whist freely available, is purely other peoples experience, and for you to accept or discard young grasshopper....
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peter.weedy
Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 2118
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Yes true but I have to entirely disagree with the "zero stability in a curve" comment.
been round a few curves myself on the diablo supercorsas 
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Tim
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 3416
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| peter.weedy wrote: | | I run diablo supercorsas all the time every time |
I've tried those on a mate's Gixxer quite a few times and they feel similar but less severe than the normal Diablo T's. Do you think there's much difference in the tyres, or was it different time/bike?
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Tim
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 3416
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Darren 41 wrote: | | Tim wrote: |
| Darren 41 wrote: | | 2. Regarding the rest of your harangue; What the eff exactly are you talking about? I have no clue!! |
Pretty simply to follow. All constructive and we've even got sources quoted! Perhaps some Californian sun has got to you D41 - missing the fog on the Tyne?!! |
Disagree entirely!!
'dragon's remarks were not in the least bit constructive, relying almost entirely on 3rd party hearsay. If I were to pay attention only to the rantings of m/c journos I'd be riding AJM every day of the week with a Duke for weekend fun! Please tell me just 1 thing that was constructive, - just 1!!!
PS. We have way more fog in LA than the Tyne & Thames put together |
Darren, Darren, Darren ...oh, Darren.
The guy has an opinion. He's expressed it. Wherever he's used other people's opinion, he's said where it has come from so you can go and suss it out for yourself. Where he's deciphering "sales hype", he's said so. He's even thrown in his own personal experience (which even you couldn't argue with - well...). Censored comments from riders is the conspiracy theory in there, but who's to say he's not right. You'd have to be a bit naive to rule that out completely.
This forum is all about people having an opinion and a voice and being able to put that across without vindication or abuse. dealsgapdragon obviously doesn't like the Pirellis. Neither do I. Hundreds of thousands of other riders do. Hundreds of thousands of other riders don't. Personal opinion comes from confidence which counts for a hell of a lot on a bike.
So please pipe down with your "fog competition" and bare it in mind next time mate.
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